The Art of Storytelling in Business Growth and Success with Erin Rogers

Speaker 1:
0:19

Thank you, this isn't Shark Tank. My aim with this podcast is to take away some of the imaginary roadblocks that are out there. I want to help more underdogs, because underdogs are truly who change the world. This is part of our Content for Good initiative. All the proceeds from the monetization of this podcast will go to charitable causes. It's for the person that wants it. Hello and welcome to another episode of Underdogs, bootstrappers, game Changers. And I've got another great guest for you today, because I think the world needs more stories and I think business can benefit off these stories. And one thing I love about the younger generation and people say what they want about, about them is we now care who we buy from and who that business is, and that's why I think it's imperative you, bootstrappers, have a good story. So joining me today is Erin Rogers. She is the ultimate in storytellers, she's a writer, she's into comedy, she loves movies and I welcome her today to Underdogs, bootstrappers, game changers.

Speaker 2:
1:29

Thanks so much for being here thank you so much, I'm so excited. I also really love when people are like oh, the younger generation, because it makes me feel like I am young, because I'm 43 years old. I'm like oh yeah, us younger generation. Even if you're not saying that, I'll take it.

Speaker 1:
1:45

I don't get away with it very well anymore, because all this is coming in, you know. But I like to say this is yours a business stress, which it's dignity yeah, when you're a man, it's dignified.

Speaker 2:
1:56

There's like super colors going on there now so, but it's a good thing. I'm not very vain no, it looks fantastic and I think I should get a fake beard and just be like listen, dignified.

Speaker 1:
2:07

You know, this is real too. It's real.

Speaker 3:
2:09

So you know just putting it out there in the world.

Speaker 2:
2:13

Speaking of real, if you grabbed it and it was fake.

Speaker 1:
2:17

Like Santa Claus.

Speaker 2:
2:19

Exactly that's the controversy of your podcast. It's like the beard was fake.

Speaker 1:
2:24

Yeah, oh yeah, Dun, dun dun. They come out of the audience somewhere Exactly. How's that for a story?

Speaker 2:
2:30

What a big name. I love it.

Speaker 1:
2:33

I want you to hash out for me how you got into storytelling, because I do think it's imperative. What would the world be without stories? And I get asked this a lot, so you tell me your take on that asked this a lot.

Speaker 2:
2:46

So you tell me your take on that. Sure, so I'm gonna. I feel like this is the audience for it. I'm going to tell you, part of the reason that I got into storytelling is because I was kind of an asshole. So what happened was I was doing a lot of stand up and I had this thing where I was like, oh, I'm so funny and I'm like so real, and not all stand ups like like were like that, are like that.

Speaker 2:
3:06

But I was definitely like that was my vibe and I was doing like all this comedy and improv, which is a very weird thing to be like. I'm so cool, I do improv give me an emotion and a piece of fruit and I will perform a scene for you like that's not, it's great, but it's not like a cool thing. But uh, I was. I was feeling very like look at me and a friend of mine who I was in in an improv troupe with said she was doing a storytelling show and uh, when you're in in an improv troupe, it's like being in like a gang for nerds, so you like you support each other and you go to stuff and you know. And so she said she was going to this thing and I was like, okay, so we're going to all sit around and talk about our feelings Cool. But I'm a nice supportive friend. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
3:53

So I got there and I sat in the back and I had, like, my jacket over one shoulder so I could just like make a quick getaway after she had done her, like little story or whatever. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
4:06

And then someone got on the stage and started telling a story and I like touched my face and I was like I'm crying and then I was laughing two seconds later and then I was just like. It was suddenly like I was in a room full of friends, even though I didn't know anyone. It was like a movie, like you know when. I haven't had this experience, but I've heard that, like when you meet the love of your life, like that you can't there's suddenly music and everything is in slow motion, and that's what it was like. I was like, and so I will say it was beautiful, and also my first thought was no, I have to do this now. I have to talk about my feeling, and for years I've just been making funny jokes that keep everybody at a very clear distance. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
4:57

So it was just a moment that completely changed my life, and after that I was like no matter what I do, I'm different now. Yeah like I can't be that same person and so I still do comedy. I love comedy. It's wonderful. There's a lot of people who are very honest and very willing to take risks. I was not one of those people at that time. Yeah, Going to that show made me.

Speaker 2:
5:22

it was basically like put up or shut up, like you've got to do something more, and so I started and I was not good at it, and so what I did was I read books and I went to shows and I started a show and I knew, if I just figured it out quote unquote if I did enough research. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
5:46

If I read the right books, I could do it, which isn't true. You can't just read a book and then suddenly you're good at it. It's like business. You just have to keep doing it and you have to fail a lot and you have to have uneven growth and then one day, yeah you have to fail and

Speaker 2:
6:03

you have to have uneven growth and then one day yeah, you have to fail and you have to have uneven growth, and you have to. Every time it's amazing like there is also that knowledge that it's going to be bad again, and I have to just accept, because when you get better, you realize that you could be better than that, and so I'm never at like I'm a really great storyteller. Now I am proud of the work that I do. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
6:32

I can see my growth, I can see how my work has been helpful and I have a long way to go, and the only way to do that is to just keep going.

Speaker 1:
6:41

What makes a great storyteller?

Speaker 2:
6:45

Honesty is a big one.

Speaker 1:
6:46

Okay. And also are you talking vulnerable honesty, like putting it out there in the world how you feel and like the hard stuff?

Speaker 2:
6:55

Yes, for sure. But I will also say that, balanced with uh, there's an expression uh, I'm a Canadian storyteller. This is an expression I learned from American storytellers that you tell from a scar, not a wound. So you're telling your truth in a way that is not going to hurt you because it's too soon, and it's also not going to be unprocessed stuff you're sending out to an audience. So there's a lot of different types of storytelling. I will be honest, Like as much as I'm like, oh yeah, being real and vulnerable, I still struggle with that. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
7:28

Excuse me. Me too. I still, yeah, I mean, who doesn't? There's people, but I am not one of them and if anybody out there is, that person bless you. Good for you. You're like Superman, like teach me your ways anyways, um, but I still.

Speaker 2:
7:49

Comedy is still my voice, yeah, uh, so, uh, for some people, uh, no jokes being completely honest and raw, that's a great storyteller. Uh, it really depends on your definition. For me, it is something with a beginning, middle and an end. It has a feeling of some sort of closure, like it doesn't have to be, um, your life is changed forever, but like we see a change in you in the story. You were one thing and then, through the process of your, of your choices, you learn something. You change, and it doesn't have to be. What I learned is you trust the audience enough to come along with you and see that change. And the other thing is honesty. That is about kindness and trust with your audience, not shock value. It's not up there, and I say this with all the love in my heart for comedians. You know, when people say I don't go to therapy, this is my therapy. Also, go to therapy.

Speaker 2:
8:53

Like if you're using this for therapy. In my opinion, that's not what storytelling and comedy is supposed to be. You are it's. It's a relationship between you and the audience. If you are going up there to tell them all your unprocessed problems, you are making them your therapist and you are asking them to pay for that.

Speaker 1:
9:16

Let's unpack that, if you don't mind. Let's unpack that for a second. How's the what's the difference between going out there and you know, like we all gosh. How do I put this in? Like a way, like sometimes people just overload us with stuff and like us, caring people obviously want to be able to help, but sometimes it's like too much, too soon. You know it's like so how do we know, like how to be vulnerable, but not like I hate this word, but I'm going to use it burdensome? You know, like cause, maybe if you're putting too much on your audience, it's like now it's there. Like I was here to watch this, I was here to learn, I was here to feel, but now I just feel like overwhelmed, right, like how do you not burden people but still be vulnerable with this story?

Speaker 2:
9:57

That is the million dollar question, my friend. So, first of all, I actually like burdensome, because that word to me also means it's not just like I'm burdened, like the emotional part of it. It's if you are carrying three boxes and someone puts another box on top, you might not be able to carry it. It's not even and you don't have to be like upset at the person, it's just people can only take so much and different people. So I will say one anybody out there at some point you're going to get it wrong, or or you're not, and you're better than me, but I like to think that I'm amazing. So if I've made the mistake, everyone will make the mistake, but at some point we're all imperfect, emotional people. When you're going through something, I'm going to change that. When I have gone through something. There have been times when I am at a state where my brain activity is almost intoxicated Because I'm so stressed and I'm so miserable. And I will tell you, uh, so years ago, uh, I had a really terrible breakup, just really like heartbreaking, like lost a group of friends, all those kind of things. Uh, now I see it as like oh, I went through this thing and I'm uh, out the other end and this is fantastic and I've learned from it.

Speaker 2:
11:24

At the time I was so miserable that I would be like at about one o'clock in the morning when I was very sad.

Speaker 2:
11:33

I'd be like you know what'll make me feel better? Some chips. And I would go to the 24-hour grocery store and I would go buy a bag of chips and because I'd been crying, I didn't want anyone to see, so I wore sunglasses and then I also wore a hat and a scarf, so it was supposed to look like it was an outfit, not trying to cover my eyes. And then, because I'd also been crying, I would buy a cucumber to put on my eyes because I would forget that I'd done the same thing the day before because I was so miserable. So there is a grocery store where for like a week, when I was at my most miserable, people saw me coming at one in the morning like a, like a haunting, like a haunting of the grocery store with a giant hat, sunglasses and a scarf by a bag of chips and an entire cucumber. And then just how to? How? To the door, and it didn't even occur to me that that was weird.

Speaker 2:
12:23

So's so weird, but I was so sad and so miserable that I couldn't see the reality of situations.

Speaker 1:
12:33

Do you think part of the difference is like we watch movies right, and movies are good stories, otherwise we wouldn't watch them.

Speaker 1:
12:38

And then obviously people tell their stories in lives.

Speaker 1:
12:40

But have you ever watched those movies where it's like they leave us hanging at the end and then it's like miserable, we feel left in abandon? Do you think part of like the point where you start to tell your story like maybe and I'm just deciphering this so our audience can maybe like understand it too and like maybe the we need a little bit of clarity at the end of the story or a little bit of a shining light at the end of the story it's like it's one thing to tell them okay, these awful things happen, these 15 things. You know I don't want to mention awfulness stuff on this show overall. You know it's like these 15 things often to me and then if they just leave you with that feels like a burden. But if they say these 15 things and now they talk about how they've grown because of it, how the next step is, you know like that sort of stuff is, maybe is that the difference where we don't feel burned in. Now we feel like we're part of a good story.

Speaker 2:
13:28

I love that.

Speaker 1:
13:29

Okay.

Speaker 2:
13:30

I would say one of the things as well, because sometimes you don't have like a lesson or you're not quite sure, or it might be a little uneven. Yeah, how does it feel? And before you're telling the story in public, how does it feel? Does it feel like I too soon? Is it look at how far I've come? If it's if and you can, it can still be. I showed that, but it's if it's look at how far I've come. I really showed them. That's a big difference from I showed them Because that is to me that's still a wound, that's still your recovery. Can you get through a story without like crying? If it's an emotional story, crying a bit is fine. Do you feel out of control? After you tell the story? How does the rest of your day feel? Yeah.

Speaker 2:
14:22

How are you talking to your partner? How are you talking to someone in the grocery store If you hear a kid crying? Cause you know kids cry and you're just like furious because you're completely, uh like activated yeah it's too soon yeah pay attention to your life, because that's the thing is for me. I was for years so cut off from the rest of the world. I was so in my own head that I wouldn't necessarily know when it was time, and now I pay so much attention to my body. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
14:57

And I would always rather and this is a bit complicated for business people, because we often use stories to share, to share who we are and why we're passionate about what we're passionate about. But, yes, but I would rather wait and tell the version of the story when it is in its final form. Uh, that sounds like it's a pokemon, but anyways. Uh, but tell it and it's at its final form. Then do a version that's just spiky, for lack of a better term, that it's not going to be.

Speaker 1:
15:34

Yeah, I think that's great insight and you know I tell people all the time with their struggle stuff, and you know even my own, like I have an interesting story I've gotten every bit of. You know, actually all my closest friends say I have horrible luck and you need to write a book because all this horrible stuff happens to you all the time. But I don't like and I used to look at myself as like the Mr Magoo of life. Do you remember Mr Magoo? He's like he like jumps, he was like walking off and like he can't see, and so he's walking off this building and he almost dies but then this swinging beam saves him. Right, you know, like last second, that's been my life. You know, like like all these things, like I've almost died overseas a couple of different times now and then like the beam swings in the way, you know, or like in business like this, horrible things happen.

Speaker 1:
16:16

Beam catches me, you know, just in time, and I used to really like define my life as Mr Magoo, you know, just saved in the nick of time. And then I like, I learned to like change that thought a little bit and I developed a story and, like paid attention to a story I liked a lot better, and that was the story of Rocky, you know, and Rocky had all these things you know in life that like just kept going at him, like you know, everything in the world was against him and like he says something along the lines of life is going to hit you harder than anything else does, right, and all you can do is keep walking forward. And that day I decided you know what I'm not Mr Magoo, I'm Rocky. Like I've refused to give up.

Speaker 1:
16:54

And at the same, it's the same point. It's like I use Oprah as the example. Maybe that's not people's favorite place to tell a story, but it's like would Oprah ever have you on If you didn't have a story? You need the bad stuff, right? You need the bad stuff to inspire somebody, you know, and that's why I love actually where we're going with this dialogue, because when is that right time For me?

Speaker 1:
17:16

People get out of me in a podcast. Now I was just on a guest on a podcast. He got all kinds of stuff out of me this week. You couldn't have got that stuff out of me in 15 years, being my best friend up until the last year and a half. Maybe there's timing in this, like you're saying. You know, it's like it's timing when it's time to tell the story and Joe Rogan's just add this last bit. It like well, one of the things that I love that Joe Rogan said is like his favorite story is that guy who, like life is shit, right, like life is awful. You know, like he's done all these things wrong, made all these mistakes. He's got the gun on the counter. He's about to blow his brains out. He looks at a picture of his daughter and he changes his life completely, right, I mean that's why people love Paul Schrader movies.

Speaker 2:
18:01

Well, actually that might be a bad example. Taxi driver is not like a positive thing.

Speaker 1:
18:07

But I mean, that's the point. It's like you know what this bad stuff happens to us, right, and we can use it to make it part of the story and inspire people. And, by the way, if you're out there right now and you have a story and like we're talking about, it's like maybe get to the growth port, you know, so you're healed and ready to tell that story. And you have to tell it because you know, like I wouldn't be anywhere in life if I didn't think people, if the world had only Mark Zuckerberg's that were offered Facebook or, you know, like, going to Harvard or McDonald's. Like his dad offered him two choices, mark, you can go to McDonald's, or you can own a McDonald's or you can go to Harvard. You know how is that an inspiration for my business story? I wasn't offered those choices. You know we have other business people that came from nothing in this world and made something know of themselves so for sure it is.

Speaker 2:
18:56

I've always uh, it's very funny because I don't think anyone would consider me very punk rock. I'm basically like like a cartoon bird who's like loves friendship.

Speaker 2:
19:05

But yeah uh, that's what I've always. I've always responded to like a diy ethic and just pushing yourself and knowing what you want to do and making that happen. And to me, that's the thing about storytelling. It's why I'm so passionate about it is because every time I hear a story where someone faces up to something, they make active choices, they make a change in their life. I know I can do it too. And yeah, and it's interesting when you're talking about mr mcgoo, because I'd never thought of this before but the thing that one of the things that's interesting about mr mcgoo is he just keeps going like all these terrible things happen and he just like something he, he believes in, himself, whatever it is like he just kind of keeps going. Mr mcgo, in a way, is like a hero of his own because, like all these terrible things happen and he just keeps going along.

Speaker 1:
20:02

Although I love, uh, making mr magoo look like a hero, that feels really good to me, but at the same time I think he's just a loop on the world.

Speaker 2:
20:10

I don't even think he knows these things are good about, about to happen to him it's possible, but also I just the fact that, as someone who has basically lived with like a low-level thrum of anxiety my whole life- yeah like, in the same way that I love larry david and curb your enthusiasm, there's a certain uh heroism of just being like I'm just gonna go in the world and off I go and oh well, like that's kind of amazing, yeah. That being said, I also I love Rocky, who doesn't.

Speaker 1:
20:38

Yeah, I mean, it's a great story. You know it's like, and it's one that a lot of and honestly I wish I could I used to be able to quote his phrase you know life keeps coming at you. You know, like, no matter what, and nobody's going to hit as hard as life. It's just how you can keep walking forward. That's the best business advice I ever heard, right.

Speaker 2:
20:56

Exactly.

Speaker 1:
20:57

It's all going to hit hard. Keep going.

Speaker 2:
21:00

And also, rocky didn't win the fight. No, that's the thing people forget. Yeah, like who. When you say Rocky, thinks, oh, you mean the guy that didn't win the fight. No, you think of him running up those stairs and being amazing yeah like that's the thing about storytelling yeah is.

Speaker 2:
21:18

I think I I have this all the time with clients, uh, and, honestly, just people I talk about, I talk to in the world, because I talk about this all the time uh, clearly, uh is people think that they have to have this amazing story where they won, where they jumped out of an airplane, where they, like, won a contest, where they you know, I don't know like climbed a mountain. Love. The idea of it Seems terrifying, but no, it can be very small. In fact, some of the biggest stories are very small. It is because it connects to people, because everyone has felt left out. Everyone has been scared of something and tried it anyway. Everyone has, you know, had people think they were one way and they're actually another. Those are very common things. In fact, the most relatable stories are often the stories that stick with people.

Speaker 1:
22:16

I mean, are you familiar with the hero's journey?

Speaker 2:
22:20

Oh, yes, I am yeah.

Speaker 1:
22:20

I figured being a storyteller.

Speaker 1:
22:22

So we we have another podcast, it's called bully, this hero's journey, and we basically walk people through the hero's journey and just for the audience, I'm going to hash it out really quick and feel free to weigh in on this, but written by Campbell, who studied like storytelling throughout the world and it didn't matter whether it was an Asian culture, indian culture, you know, european culture.

Speaker 1:
22:41

He was finding these themes in these historic stories and so, basically, deep in our being as humans, we are all attached to this emotional story and it is basically the same timeline over and over again, no matter where you see these stories. We could find an ancient script, you know, from thousands of years ago and in theory, you know, you'd find the same story that we're all attached to. Like Star Wars was written off of it and, you know, like that hero's journey, and so we want heroes in the world, you know, and like that journey is no good unless you have to deal with some stuff along the way, right and so, and the way like if life isn't giving you stuff anyways which most of it does and you have to overcome it because it's going to be part of your story, but if it's not giving it to you, then I dare say you're not approaching enough for yours.

Speaker 2:
23:32

Yeah, well, I mean, there's my niece, who's like almost three now. I remember when she was teaching herself to roll over. She's this tiny baby, and she would try so hard that she would fall asleep and then she would yank herself awake and then just keep going. And this is like a baby where I was like I am inspired, like that is, like that's Rocky to me, like I'm like do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, like it's just as she. I don't know that you might have to cut that out, cause that might be licensing, but anyway, but yeah, like just this tiny baby. And also one of the things that I love and find complicated about the hero's journey is that hero is in the title, and so people often are like, well, I'm not a hero, or like my, the thing that I overcame is not the same as this person or that person that their thing was worse or harder Somebody out there needs to hear your story and I think,

Speaker 1:
24:33

that's like a big part of what we do these days too, um, like, I have another company and we really focus on telling stories, right, and bringing good. We have a initiative we call for charity called content for good. This podcast is one of them, right, and it's like putting good stories in the world. We actually have a place and there's a little fireplace here on the property, um, and we invite the older generation. So if you're out there right now and you have a grandparent that has an amazing story, send them our way. We'll film it for free. We'll put it online because we don't want those stories lost, right, and the only people using this tool, for the most part of the younger generation. They haven't had enough time to evolve these wonderful stories. Maybe they have some, but I wonderful stories. Maybe they have some, but the old, I'm telling you we're going to lose some stories in the older generation because they don't know how to use this tool here. So come on down.

Speaker 2:
25:21

We'll film that for you.

Speaker 2:
25:22

That's how important we think stories are in the world. I love, I love that. So I may or may not have told you, uh, my charity thing that I do is, uh, I co-founded a collective. We put out collections of people's true stories on a theme. We've uh, our third and final one is coming out on April 17th, and thank you, uh, and all the money goes to charity goes to Planned Parenthood this time.

Speaker 2:
25:44

And yeah, and uh, I haven't told many people this, but my father has a story in this collection and yeah, and it was. It's been such an interesting process of having my own father as sort of like a client or someone that I'm editing and learning about him in this way. Like, I know my father pretty well but I'm learning, I've learned so much more about him and it's just been a really beautiful sometimes a bit weird and wonderful process of getting to know my father more as a person, aside from him as my father. So it is. I love that there's this space, because one of the things I've told him is like, dad, I'm sure there's, I know a lot of your stories, but just talking to you about this one, I've learned all these things I never knew. If we, if you don't record them in some way, we're going to lose them.

Speaker 2:
26:45

Yeah absolutely, and they're important. They're important to me. And when you were saying someone in your life needs to hear your story, or someone in the world needs to hear your story, or someone in the world needs to hear your story, I will say sometimes that person is you. Yeah. Sometimes you don't even have to share that story. Maybe it's for you in the future to look at, maybe it's for your kids and grandkids, maybe it's just you needed to get it down on a page.

Speaker 1:
27:11

I truly believe everybody has a story. How do you get stories out of people? Like, what's the process for getting a story out of somebody?

Speaker 2:
27:19

A lot of times it's asking questions. So this is I, this is the dream job I never knew I was dreaming of, because, as, as a kid, one of the things I got in trouble for in school was that I was disruptive, because I would talk to other kids and I would ask them questions. And so there would be, you know, this kid looking worried, and I would turn to them and be like, oh, how are you, how are you? And like, ask them a bunch of questions, and my teacher would be like Aaron, we have to do math. I'm like, but he's, he's sad, like we have to, like he has to deal with that, that right now which, by the way, don't do that.

Speaker 2:
27:53

Don't call out another children's, child's emotion in front of everyone. But.

Speaker 2:
27:58

I just, I've been a I've always been fascinated by people. I've always asked them a lot of questions, Uh, so one of my questions I asked for people, cause I have regularly, uh had the pleasure of working with like really wonderful, sensitive people who are also, for some reason, convinced that they don't have any anything interesting to talk about. They don't have any interesting stories, and so one of the things is what is something that you learned in your life that changed you? What is the who is the most important person in your life? What is, uh, a change that you've gone through? If you could go back 10 years, 20 years in the past and tell yourself something, what would it be?

Speaker 2:
28:50

yeah because being like tell me a story is incredibly stressful. Like that when I was doing stand up, I often didn't tell people because the first thing they'll do is like, okay, tell me a joke. Like out of what, out of contact? No.

Speaker 2:
29:04

Yeah again, my brain would freeze up and I would yeah, I'd be like I don't know you. I got some killer knock knock material. You like that, some killer knock knock material? You like that? Like it's just, it's a lot of pressure. But certain like who's an important person in your life, what's something that you have learned that you would like to tell your younger self, like those kind of things start getting you thinking in that space um, if there was a, there was a movie, uh, or there was a director who did a movie of your life. One of my favorite cues is the story of my life is and you'll be amazed what will start popping up. And especially if you keep writing, if you give yourself 10 minutes and that is stressful, 10 minutes and that is stressful, start with like one minute, but if you write for 10 minutes with that cue and you just keep going, I guarantee you there'll be stuff in there that you are shocked positively by where you're just like what, where did that come from? Yeah.

Speaker 2:
30:09

That's part of it. Once you start going, you'll be amazed. It's like panning for gold. All of a sudden you see, except unlike panning for gold, there's real gold there, Because I don't know, you find real gold when you pan for gold. I watched Bugs Bunny cartoons. It seemed like it was unrealistic.

Speaker 1:
30:27

You know that's. I guess maybe one gift I have is I'm just very fascinated by people in general and I run across a lot of people in my world and I can find a fascinating thing about all of them, every single one. Like there is nobody out there in the world that I don't find fascinating. It's just sometimes it takes a second to get to there and to your point, it's like they all have a story and they don't even think it's a good one. Most of the best story people are the and they don't even think it's a good one. Most of the best like story people are the ones that don't even know they have a story.

Speaker 1:
30:56

That was just like when you live in your normal life, you're immersed into your your what is your life. You think it's like not any kind of special, you know, and then, like you really dig in, it's like you know, I didn't know you were into that. I didn't know, like you. You know like I don't know. I can't think of anything off the top of my head this morning, but you know, it's like like I think everybody has that you know, and so good for you for finding ways to get people to that. I want to pivot a little bit.

Speaker 2:
31:23

Oh sorry, go ahead, oh sorry well, I was going to say it is interesting because I can only speak from my own perspective. But for decades I was trying so desperately to be normal in quotations that I was scared all the time and it was like my. I'm always going to have a level of anxiety, but it was just like you know, when people say they were on a hamster wheel, like I was on a hamster wheel that was inside another hamster wheel, that was like inside a series of hamster woods.

Speaker 2:
31:55

I was just anxious all the time, and to me, the most interesting things about people are the ways they're different and weird and I feel like I can only yeah, I can only speak, for I mean, I, I could say, I think I can say North American society, definitely Canadian society, um, is there such a thing of like, don't be weird, don't make waves, which is if you're in business.

Speaker 1:
32:20

Celebrate your weirdness, you know like yeah, exactly. We, so we do the bullying podcast and every single episode at the beginning I quiz my cohost, cliff, and I give him a bunch of hints and it's a celebrity that was bullied and you know of the time. It's that thing that they were unique with early on. That was actually what got them bullied but then later led to their success.

Speaker 1:
32:42

Like Taylor Swift music got bullied for music and now obviously look at where that went. So most of the time when people are picking on you about something that's actually your greatness, that weird thing is actually your greatness, yeah. But I want to have enough time to go into stories in business, whys in business, and one thing I want to give the audience before we start into that topic, and something I've been explaining to people a lot lately. I work with a lot of new entrepreneurs and so do you remember the movie Billy Madison? Sure, do, yeah, or, excuse me, happy Gilmore, I'm sorry, do you?

Speaker 2:
33:21

remember Happy Gilmore. I'm sorry you remember yes, cause isn't it happy Madison production, so you put the two together.

Speaker 1:
33:26

I did so anyways you remember the part where it's like find your happy place, you know, and he's like thinking, and you know he has that like point where it's like the music beautiful music starts playing and the beautiful woman blonde, blonde hair, a fancy outfit comes out. She's got two jugs of beer. Grandma's over there shaking her head and smiling at him. You know, it's like that was his happy place, Right? And so one thing I tell entrepreneurs these days is do that Right. But instead of thinking happy place, close your eyes and think success right. What is your success place? And then I'll ask him this follow-up question. It's like okay, did you picture what the world says is success? Were you picturing that like fancy car, that fancy house, or did you line into specifics? It's like you pictured your kid, you know, like going to college. Or you pictured your wife happy because she gets this beautiful kitchen, or you know like the point is?

Speaker 1:
34:26

It's like if we don't start to define what the success is to us and what and we're going by what the world thinks that definition is what we'll proceed towards. That will be the goal and it will be the wrong goal. So you have to describe and define your own success first, in my opinion, to make your story, to get there right. And so that's where I want to go. And you know like I think it's important that business does have some sort of why. And that gets tough in entrepreneurship for some people because it's like, oh, I own a landscaping company. I hate mowing lawns, you know. It's like, but is that landscaping company getting you closer to something that you're passionate about? Are you guys using that to like, hire, age out, foster youth to give them their first job?

Speaker 2:
35:12

Another way you can be a wife. You know it's like-. Yeah, and are you and your wife and that fancy kitchen and like you're cooking her dinner and she's having like a margarita and it's great, you know, like that's. That's the thing, is your business and I'm glad we're talking about this. It doesn't always have to be the dream. It doesn't have to be. You know what I've always wanted to do mow a whole bunch of lawns and do it the best.

Speaker 2:
35:35

And also, if that's your dream, that is rad because I as a kid, because I as a kid yeah, exactly, and also as a kid like I always thought that was the coolest thing because there was those I would like be on the bus and see people on those riding mowers and I'm like best of both worlds. Like it is whatever your dream is. That's amazing.

Speaker 1:
35:56

Well, because we don't. We don't. The founder of Walmart, sam Walton, wrote a book and this was before social media, and he said you want to compete with Walmart, you want to know how to compete with Walmart, because we are this monster company, we're going to put companies out of business. How are you going to compete with me? He tells you, personalization. Personalization is that story. These days it's told through this device mostly and having a decent. Why? Because the younger generation wants to hear that your business is about something.

Speaker 2:
36:23

Definitely I will. I will also say gently, he shouldn't have had a company that locked people in his store overnight.

Speaker 1:
36:32

Uh, that work there or I see what you're saying or made money off his employees deaths and not give them any?

Speaker 2:
36:38

you know exactly. But I see what. But I see what you're saying mean people are.

Speaker 1:
36:42

People want to buy from people they know, or a personalization. Even the big companies now have to find a why you can't be the big corporate monster anymore. We don't. We don't vote for those people anymore. You know, and the younger generation is holding people accountable with this device, social media, and they're also holding people accountable and they will not purchase from you. Right, I mean this is the best way to spread. I was just watching. Um, there's that. Do you remember that story when the guy uh, saved up all the Pepsi coupons? Remember that Like? And then there's a documentary out like he had saved up so many coupons and there was a Harrier jet involved.

Speaker 2:
37:19

That's it. That's it, yes.

Speaker 1:
37:20

Yeah, so there's Harrier Jets involved and he actually did it. He did the calculations, he outsmarted Pepsi, they owed him a Harrier Jet and he had to fight them over it, right. And then at the same time you know like it goes into in this documentary how Pepsi had ran this contest in Cambodia, which I just came back from filming our documentary, so it has a close place to my heart and these poor people went out and bought all these Pepsi points because it was literally going to change their lives if they won this contest. And then Pepsi had made a mistake and they printed too many winners For now. They decided not to give anybody the prize and all these Cambodians basically tore Pepsi down over there.

Speaker 1:
37:59

You know, it's like that's the stories we need in the world and all these Cambodians basically tore Pepsi down over there. That's the stories we need in the world, because we don't need companies that will do those things I'm impassioned about. We need companies that are bettering the world, because business is what Business is, what runs the world. At the end of the day, I don't care what you say about politics, it's business that runs the world. We need good heads of company.

Speaker 2:
38:21

For sure. Do you know about the story about Kavassi? I'm sorry I can't pronounce it because it's too fancy for me.

Speaker 1:
38:27

Yeah, I don't know the story.

Speaker 2:
38:30

So it's a specific well, I didn't just tell you like a specific story, so it's about Kavassi and rappers and rap music. So for a while in a lot of rap videos you would see crystal and you would hear them rap about crystal, like all kinds of um, you know all kinds of uh, amazing successful rappers like known worldwide. We're talking about crystal and apparently, uh, the crystal company itself not super into that. That was not their brand identity. Uh, why, who knows? Question mark, but that was not what they uh were into and uh, so they ruined that relationship and uh, I can't remember the rappers because if I knew I was talking about this, I would have researched it more. So I apologize for some of the details, but I believe it's a Busta Rhymes song called Pass the Cavassier, which was like, hey, you don't think we're good enough for your thing that we have advertised for free? Okay, we're into Cavasier now and the sales of Cavasier went through the roof and the sales of Cristal went down significantly.

Speaker 1:
39:54

Business owners, I mean the heads of companies, are so disconnected and there's so many small business people. That's one thing you have going for you. You know it's like, and put people around you that aren't afraid to tell you, like, the hard truths too, and have a discussion, because too many people in the corporate world are too afraid to say anything and quite often these big businesses, they don't make good decisions. You know, and it's because everybody's yes, people right.

Speaker 2:
40:27

You know it's like don't be a yes person. We have to get to stories, though. So what is what is that? Yes, so? So, uh, sharing your story to me is to help people know you, and it is the thing you were talking about with Walmart, where it's like there's this faceless corporation or there's my friend, jenny, yeah, and so, even though these might be people that you don't know personally, when you share your story, it is a way that you connect deeply. So I've seen people tell a story on stage who I have never met. Like I saw them, you know, I had to go, didn't even get a chance to say that was a great story afterwards, and I feel like they're my friend because I know something important about them. I know that they, just like me, have gone through struggles. I know that they've changed. I know all of those certain things. So, to me, business storytelling is about them getting to know you, and often it's why did you create this?

Speaker 2:
41:21

Yes this business. What is the problem you're solving and why is that important? Because a lot of underdog entrepreneurs. You saw something that was missing, you saw something that was wrong, you saw something you could offer a solution for and then you created a business around that, and that is very inspiring.

Speaker 1:
41:42

Do you know the story of Yvonne Shemboard? I might have murdered. His name from Patagonia.

Speaker 2:
41:48

I don't know. So yeah anything. Anything that involves being out in nature is terrifying to me, so I probably don't know that.

Speaker 1:
41:55

Well, and to that point he was a mountain climber, huge mountains, you know, and so, and basically he wanted the mountains to be available for younger generations, you know. He wanted them to be able to experience nature the way he was experiencing it. So he could have went out and started a charity, right, and maybe he had some rich friends, he could have made a couple million dollars worth of impact on saving the planet sort of stuff. And instead he went out and opened Patagonia, which everybody knows for the most part, and every single item that was sold he gave an X percent to combat climate change, to save the world, that sort of stuff, every piece of clothing, for-profit business, right. And then he actually big news, like six months ago he's retiring. His shares were worth $3.6 billion. He gave all that towards the same charity. He made more impact than anybody in the world ever has towards this, and he did it by starting a for-profit company as opposed to a charity. Couple million dollars, maybe with some friends over here, billions plus the money all the way along the way.

Speaker 1:
42:57

And so I think the point I'm trying to make and you know like, and you're trying to make around telling a good story. You're saying tell a good story. I believe it. I believe that, like, that should be a banner, you know, but then also move in your why, like you're saying, you know, like, move in your why to that story and let people know that story about your business. You know, have your business, stand something and I tell people I'm like all the time this is what something I'm known for Do something you hate in the world. Don't do something you love, do something you hate, do something you can't. Stand and start a business that's going to solve that thing you hate, right, you know and like and that could be. You know, I make it really dramatic because that's where I work.

Speaker 1:
43:38

I hate the fact that the foster care system and the way it works, so I start things to help with that. I hate the fact that there's a lot of bad information online, so we start content for goods. I hate that we look at the wrong type of heroes. We have a charity that involves us traveling around the world finding founders of amazing organizations. I hate that small business gets picked on, so I do this and then we have a small business tech company that we're working on.

Speaker 1:
44:03

You know it's like, so it can be something as simple as like I hate the fact that you can't get a good burger in this town with good customer service, you know. And then like I would also say one further it's like start something within that business that makes an impact. You know, higher age out foster kids, you know, like maybe help sponsor the soccer team. You know it's like small business does more impactful stuff and the world wants to hear and support people that are doing that stuff. Don't make it a gimmick. Make it part of your heart. I know there's something that's in there that you're passionate about that you don't like that. You want to change. Make that part of your business, even if it's a landscaping company or a hamburger shop.

Speaker 2:
44:40

For sure. So one of the things I often tell to clients is watch a couple of Frank Capra movies Specifically. It's a Wonderful Life. Love that movie Because yeah, he saves the town. That's the story. It's this man who thinks he's not important Like I'm getting emotional.

Speaker 2:
45:00

I've seen this movie 80 times yeah um, and he just thinks he's this regular guy. And there's all these people whose lives have been changed because of him and also because of his business, because that like loan company, bank company I don't know how, what it was, but like was able to make sure that people had houses and that sort of stuff and fought potter who didn't care about anyone in the town, and so sorry I was going to say to your point because I want to back it up a little bit.

Speaker 1:
45:31

I mean, potter, is the definition of success? Everybody in the us, your definition of success now, if you close your eyes, is Potter. You know what is true success. Right, is true success the person with the Ferrari out there that's not doing anything? Or is it the teacher that's had 800 students email her and said I became a teacher because of you?

Speaker 1:
45:53

You know, yeah, is success the guy that we just visited in Cambodia, who gave up every dime that he had, including his mansion, his fancy career in Hollywood, and now he's got 1,700 kids and he's the hero of an entire country? Is that success? You know it's like we're defining success wrong, you know, and that even in your business, define success better, you know. Make it like it has to be monetized. You're not going to do anything any good for anybody If you're struggling, if you can't eat. You know it's like you need those resources, but make it about more and I promise you if you make it about more, you won't quit it either, because it's now a mission within your business and a life mission needs a good story.

Speaker 2:
46:34

I agree, and that's why, for me it's a Wonderful Life is such an important tool, because we see this very ordinary guy, just a regular guy you probably know a million of that guy and we see how important he is to so many people, and so to me it is. When people are like, oh, I don't have anything that important or I haven't done anything that important, I tell them to watch that movie because it just really shows that an average, the ordinary, is extraordinary. And so, after you've seen that movie, what I'm going to say is what is a thing that someone else has done for you that has changed your life? A small thing, a small kindness, and then we're going to start finding those in your life. And who was it, who was a relative, that inspired you as a kid? And that's part of the reason that you're doing the work that you do now. So, exactly.

Speaker 2:
47:37

There's a story I tell. A lot Years ago I was lucky enough to work for a union helping them work to find stories, their members to find stories, to go in and lobby and talk to politicians. Of the part of the contract was doing some coaching with different people. And so there was this guy. He had booked an appointment and it had been for I don't know like eight o'clock on a Tuesday morning and as someone who gets up in the morning, but like it's not my favorite time of the day, I was like, oh, okay, fine. So I, you know I'm ready, I'm on my zoom call. It's 830. So I, you know I'm ready, I'm on my Zoom call. It's 830. It's 835. It's 840.

Speaker 2:
48:25

I closed the computer. I was like ah, and like an hour later I get this email. Oh, my God, I'm so sorry. I slept through. I got home from my night shift, sat down and fell asleep. Is there any way you can meet now? And I immediately went from being thinking like what a selfish person to be, like you were going to do that after doing a whole night shift. Cool, yes, we will meet whenever you want.

Speaker 2:
48:53

And we got on the meeting and immediately he said I have wasted your time twice because I have nothing. I'm so sorry, I have nothing at all. And then we just started talking and he was telling me about his mom. So he was born here in Canada. His mom is from his family's, from China.

Speaker 2:
49:14

His mom, I believe, only speaks Cantonese and when he and she was a Molly made for years and at one point she got injured at work and, uh, they couldn't get the help they needed because, like, there wasn't English stuff to help, but, like the like, when she would call to, like, try to make a claim, nobody spoke Cantonese. Like it was. It was a whole nightmare. And so she was off for as long as she could, which was not very long, and then she had to go back to work and what he said was like I feel so much shame because I was the one English speaker and I didn't do anything. And I went how old were you? He's like oh, like 15. I was like you were 15 years old. What were you gonna do? You had to go to school, like, what were you gonna do? You were 15, I'm like. And now you go and you lobby the government to make sure that doesn't happen to other families.

Speaker 1:
50:07

That's your hero story, my friend beautiful you're exactly who you needed yeah, and your circumstances gave you. You know, we had a person on the last season of our last episode and she's uh, she's from Canada. She works actually with um a lot of youth bullied kids, you know, and she's she said you know what? I'm simply trying to be the hero in life. I wish I had you know. And so, and that's why, like, I'm so passionate about bringing underdogs to success too, because it's like they change systems, your, your story that you just told he's changing that system because he was involved in that system and there's nobody better to change that system because he has the story right and that story is what drives him.

Speaker 2:
50:47

Exactly, and I think about it three times a week and that was years ago Like it's. It's why, when I'm feeling low, I think about that. When I'm feeling like, oh, what am I doing in the world? Cause everyone gets that way. Where it's like, is what I'm doing of any use, especially when you're tired. And I was like he was who he needed. How can I be who I needed?

Speaker 1:
51:12

It's. It's such a good point to tie in to your story, you know, and like one thing I want to hit too, because it's like it brought up something. It's like in the hero's journey, right, there's Luke Skywalker We'll use Star Wars because everybody understands that he's the hero right and through his journey he has some help, right. One of the guiding principles in all these stories is there's some help, somebody to show them, kind of the way the. There's some help, somebody to show them kind of the way the Obi-Wan Kenobi, right. And so I like I would say bootstrappers out there, you're Luke, right, you know.

Speaker 1:
51:44

But seasoned entrepreneurs out there, you're Obi-Wan Kenobi, you know. It's like you have that chance to be that guiding hand along that story, you know, and so like your story might start by being the hero, not knowing anything, having to go through all all these battles, having like some guidance along the way to ultimately solve this business problem. What are you working on in life? But then I think that's when you go back into the cycle and you become obi-wan, right yeah, and maybe, and I think, go ahead.

Speaker 2:
52:08

Oh, sorry, I love that, but I was gonna say I think, because, uh, as somebody who is a devoted star wars, uh, uh, fan, sometimes it can feel like a lot of pressure to be Luke, and what I like to do is what I call the David Bowie method, which is changes is what are changes I've made? Changes I've made in my life, big or small Changes I've made in my business, changes that my business has made. You know, there's, there's certain things that my storytelling business has done for other people and I keep a record of those things, because that's the other thing when we're talking about when is a story too soon. Write it down now, maybe look at it in a couple months, maybe look at it in a couple of years. It might not be the time to tell it now doesn't mean it's not the time to report it. Sure, to get information down, because you will forget things.

Speaker 2:
53:05

I always recommend people do a record every day of things that have happened. Do I do it all the time? No, I don't, but I try, and looking back, especially the early days of my business versus now one, I see how much I've changed. I see the things I've learned and it gives me these elements. So when I'm telling the story of my business and of myself and that sort of thing, I can see the specifics, how I changed compared to every. Even if people have identical like hey, I was a person I started we were talking about like a lawn care business, uh, it raised up my family and now I'm here you can have people with that identical story, but who they are is going to give a different version of that story and it's going to give the specifics and the color and make you fall in love with them specifically.

Speaker 1:
53:54

I mean that's absolutely beautiful. And the other thing, like Luke, wasn't Luke always right, he had to go through something and he had to build. So I tell people it's like life to me is like building your video game avatar. You know, tyler goes out and reads a book. Guess what? That little bar of smart intelligence goes up. Tyler goes out and lifts weights. You know that health and that strength bar goes up it and lifts weights. You know that health and that strength bar goes up.

Speaker 1:
54:17

It's like to have an incredible story, to have an incredible mission, you have to build an avatar right. Every day. You have to be building this avatar for this story that you want right. And you have to approach these hard things. And to some of us those hard things are like, you know, getting up in the morning at four o'clock in the morning. That's easy for me, right? That's not a hard one for me. Getting on this camera, I don't have a secret. Getting on this camera, that's a hard thing for me and that's for some people. It's not a hard thing. So it's like define your heart, approach those fears. That's where you grow the most. Get yourself a mighty avatar that you're constantly improving every single day of the week, have a lofty mission, and now you're developing your story, I think 100% and I also think.

Speaker 2:
55:02

here's the thing and I'm going to swear it. I hope that's fine. Yes. People love fuck ups. Yes.

Speaker 2:
55:08

That is. I can't, I'm not I'm going to misquote it, because I tend to misquote smart things but the idea of, like Americans and I'm going to say Canadians as well love like a third act, yeah, and that's the thing. Have you ever been in a room where everyone seems perfect and then one person leans over and goes like, oh my God, this food, I'm going to fart. And then you're like, ah, this is the best, this is my friend. Yeah, that is one of the things that, uh, is always a challenge for people and me, it's not just my clients. Anything that my client has said, I guarantee you, I have said as a resistance as well, is like, oh, people don't want to hear that. They don't want to hear, they want to see, they want to trust me, they want to see I've got it all together. They don't want to know how in the first days of business, I lost a bunch of invoices because I put them down and then, like my cat, knocked them in a corner. I'm like, yeah, of course they do. Yeah.

Speaker 2:
56:09

Because we already see where you've gotten to. We want to see, be like oh, it's my friend, my friend who is just like me and is imperfect.

Speaker 1:
56:18

We need to know that everybody's went through it, and not only that, but your mistakes. You can let them define you. You can let that mistake be the defining moment of your life, or you can do so much good stuff because of that. It can all shadow in comparison. All your mistakes can be a shadow in comparison to your good work if you'll let it drive you forward.

Speaker 2:
56:35

And I'm also going to gently reframe that yeah because I love that. But here's the thing you can also let your mistakes and problems define you, but you just change what the definition is.

Speaker 1:
56:50

I beautiful and, with that being said, as much as I hate to do it, I hope we helped you define a story a little bit today. I want to give you a second to drop anything you want to drop before we close out the episode.

Speaker 2:
57:02

Sure, you can find me at StoryStarCoaching. I'm also going to put a special page on my website for your listeners. It's going to have some little free stuff to help them start finding their stories for their business, and I am also on Instagram as Aaron Rogers story coach. But the most important thing that I want to tell you is I want to hear your story, share it with the world, because you are making the world better by putting that story out there. As long as you've processed it, yes.

Speaker 1:
57:42

Oh, I want to thank you so much for coming in today. Stick around for a second. I'm going to sign us out of here. Bootstrappers, game changers, underdogs, thank you so much for joining us today. The world would be no good without a story. And not only that, but if nobody told their story, we would never have hope, we could get there, we'd never be inspired. So somebody out there I guarantee it needs to hear your story, and the world needs more good stories. Involve your story in your business, in your mission of passion, and you will never fail in business and, I believe, in life too. Thank you all. We'll be back next week.

Speaker 2:
58:22

Yeah, sorry.